200’, 400’… almost doesn’t matter in aviation. The reality is attempting to split hairs like altitude like this is “in the noise” of normal altimeter operation. The ultimate question is how a random set of reasonably possible circumstances can lead to this mishap. Nothing is perfect. And, if reasonable imperfection—i.e. people make mistakes—causes a mishap, that’s not any person’s fault. I’m saying this because I personally take exception at any narrative that easily leads to a particular individual was at fault. Narratives that say, “the helicopter was at 400’ vs 200’ suggests the operator was at fault… (no other questions to ask.) I know you didn’t say that explicitly—ie the operator was at fault. But, the word structure allows that view. A better approach should be simply “they collided”—obviously they were at the same attitude, whatever it was. Who knows what the attitude really was and does it matter. In my view the only thing that matters is how such operations could be allowed that even if people were minimally good enough, this still happened. That’s the real question.
You are correct that generally a few hundred feet in altitude is not really an issue. But as you know, around airports and under ATC directions... heading an altitude become critical. I am not a pilot and don't want to go too deep here... but the 200' for helos around National Airport is a hard ceiling. The safety system is layered in an effort to prevent mistakes leading to accidents. We see an accident like this when all those layers fail. The question you pose is correct.. why did the system fail?
A few things, my point was about your syntax… choice of words.. I think can easily lay culpability on the operators. That was my primary suggestion. It’s only a suggestion. The defense of that suggestion was about the system even the imperative of “hard altitudes.” These are precisely the types of system qualities that have to be addressed to improve safety. Otherwise we’re in these do-loop of human factors causes that never seem to diminish. I am implying our safety state is so effective human non-linear factors are the predominate pathway of major commercial mishaps. When it’s in this state, the potential culpability on the operators is a distraction to actually making a difference to the system. Just so you know, I’ve done plenty enough aviation mishap investigations, and meta analysis of others investigations to know it’s easy to blame operators who exceed imperatives. It’s not a popular opinion, but when the aggregate data of mishaps suggests unchanged rates despite pointed recommendations to improve human performance, that means to me the focus on human performance is not a reliable pathway to improve aviation safety in general. And, to be clear… I am not trying to throw shade at anyone. I am only communicating a rational to improve aviation safety because right now it’s stuck.
Donald Trump is letting the executive branch know what he thinks about the cause of the air crash so everyone, including the NTSB, can cherry-pick the evidence to support his opinions. Pete Hegseth certainly will but Trump may want to put the NTSB on leave.
200’, 400’… almost doesn’t matter in aviation. The reality is attempting to split hairs like altitude like this is “in the noise” of normal altimeter operation. The ultimate question is how a random set of reasonably possible circumstances can lead to this mishap. Nothing is perfect. And, if reasonable imperfection—i.e. people make mistakes—causes a mishap, that’s not any person’s fault. I’m saying this because I personally take exception at any narrative that easily leads to a particular individual was at fault. Narratives that say, “the helicopter was at 400’ vs 200’ suggests the operator was at fault… (no other questions to ask.) I know you didn’t say that explicitly—ie the operator was at fault. But, the word structure allows that view. A better approach should be simply “they collided”—obviously they were at the same attitude, whatever it was. Who knows what the attitude really was and does it matter. In my view the only thing that matters is how such operations could be allowed that even if people were minimally good enough, this still happened. That’s the real question.
Tom...
You are correct that generally a few hundred feet in altitude is not really an issue. But as you know, around airports and under ATC directions... heading an altitude become critical. I am not a pilot and don't want to go too deep here... but the 200' for helos around National Airport is a hard ceiling. The safety system is layered in an effort to prevent mistakes leading to accidents. We see an accident like this when all those layers fail. The question you pose is correct.. why did the system fail?
A few things, my point was about your syntax… choice of words.. I think can easily lay culpability on the operators. That was my primary suggestion. It’s only a suggestion. The defense of that suggestion was about the system even the imperative of “hard altitudes.” These are precisely the types of system qualities that have to be addressed to improve safety. Otherwise we’re in these do-loop of human factors causes that never seem to diminish. I am implying our safety state is so effective human non-linear factors are the predominate pathway of major commercial mishaps. When it’s in this state, the potential culpability on the operators is a distraction to actually making a difference to the system. Just so you know, I’ve done plenty enough aviation mishap investigations, and meta analysis of others investigations to know it’s easy to blame operators who exceed imperatives. It’s not a popular opinion, but when the aggregate data of mishaps suggests unchanged rates despite pointed recommendations to improve human performance, that means to me the focus on human performance is not a reliable pathway to improve aviation safety in general. And, to be clear… I am not trying to throw shade at anyone. I am only communicating a rational to improve aviation safety because right now it’s stuck.
No surprise... This is the best breakdown of what may have happened
Thanks David
The crash is tragic. The bullshit from trump is predictable. Just the first of the many tragedies we will suffer under this insipid idiot!
Donald Trump is letting the executive branch know what he thinks about the cause of the air crash so everyone, including the NTSB, can cherry-pick the evidence to support his opinions. Pete Hegseth certainly will but Trump may want to put the NTSB on leave.